Grizelda's comments

Dealing with a Narcissistic Mother - Blog Entry

16 Jul 2009 03:40 PM

OMG! Your mother is all the way on the worst side of the N spectrum at Psychopath! I hope you can take advantage of her "kicking you out" and can make a new life somewhere else - maybe your brother can help you? Or a community college/dorm or something like that, where the fees aren't too bad, and you can make a new start? I think student loans and Pell grants aren't too hard to apply for. I think maybe you should consider hiding your whereabouts from her - that's so scary! Good luck!!!

Dealing with a Narcissistic Mother - Blog Entry

09 Jul 2009 02:23 PM

I'm not a psychologist like Beth - but I feel I can really identify with your post, except I managed to escape my NPD and transfer my dependency to a husband. I think that several conditions might be more common in children of N's: anxiety, generalized anxiety disorder, avoidant personality disorder -- I've been diagnosed with those. Also, perhaps Post Traumatic Stress Disorder - I keep reading about that as a common condition in Adult Children of N's.

These are NOT easy things to get over - but I think they're high treatable, compared to NPD. Cognitive Behavioral Therapy or something like that? But then, you'd have to find a competent therapist (which I've never been able to do except on the Internet - and I've tried three.) And you'd have to pay for it. And just coming up with the courage to try -- well, I've found that SO hard as well!

But I am so happy for you that you've figured out your mum has NPD though! There's so much help on the Internet - and figuring out WHAT is going on is a BIG part of the solution, imo. Or at least, it's a big part of feeling BETTER about your situation and realizing it's not your fault. You're like the rest of us - a VICTIM!

I wish you LUCK - and in the meantime, more peace of mind. One year isn't really very long to have realized what's going on -- I hope you're able to make a good plan to start getting yourself in a better place -- but just learning about the psychological dynamics of your situation is really HUGE!! Please keep us updated -- Beth has a new message board:

http://youronlinecounselor.com/phpbb/

and there's one that's been quite active and enormously helpful to me at this link:

http://thepsychopath.freeforums.org/adult-children-of-psychopaths-and-narcissists-f28.html

Dealing with a Narcissistic Mother - Blog Entry

18 Jun 2009 11:09 PM

So sorry for your sadness, Helen, and your new pain from realizing the culpability of others. I hope in time you can heal and move on, stronger and with a greater understanding of your nightmare and all the players. I can help but believe that the more clearly we figure things out, our history and what was done to us, by the personality disordered and their minions and even those who just stood idly by, the more we can find peace and true understanding. Not forgiveness or even a lessening of the wounds, but an acceptance of what we went through - and hopefully, how we can move on, with as little residual damage as possible. Good luck to you!

Psych, I spent a frightful night with my N-mom in hospital and her face/attitude scared the devil out of me - because I felt like I saw the devil in her. I've never seen her so reptilian, with all the facade pushed away in her fear and anger - and the nasty barked orders. Oh Lord, I don't think I could ever put myself in that place again. I'd pay for sitters myself if need be but NOT me - it was like a Poe short story being locked in a dungeon with a soulless demon.'

But with all that happens, like ErinRenee, I still struggle with an eerie kind of guilt, that I'm being bad and mummy's gonna make me pay when she gets her hands on me. She's taken steps to disown me and try to get back gifts she's given us - not even seeing her I can visualize the rage and hatred, and it's unsettling. I've never had another human hate me like this, let alone my own mother. Back to Poe or some Shakespearean tragedy where the Queen wants to annihilate all her offspring lest they take her thrown. It's a long difficult road ahead I fear, and I have no idea if I'll feel as Helen does when I reach the end of it. I'm sure I won't be gleeful but perhaps finally and truly safe? In the mean time, I'm just going to have to seek courage. I'm still no NC since Feb (none in person since Jan.) I'm not giving up my requirements for strict limits and I don't think she's capable of lowering herself to accept limits on her power over me. I'm supposed to be the slave, dammit - I can imagine her fury.

And please find peace and HOPE, Amylous. Knowing what we're dealing with - having so many resources at our fingertips on the web and in books - it's just a matter of accepting the truth and finding the courage to save ourselves. It's not easy and sometimes it makes you feel horrible, the confrontations, the determined application of limits and boundaries, the standing up for yourself, and then, the distancing yourself and even deciding to go no contact -- it's heart-wrenching. But for me, and for many others, it's a better life than being a whipping girl, an abused and overwrought martyr. Much better! Good luck to all of you!

Dealing with a Narcissistic Mother - Blog Entry

11 Jun 2009 03:40 PM

I don't know if this applies to you - but when you said your mother had gotten worse, it reminded me that mine was much nicer to me when my stepfather was alive. I think some (all?) people with NPD need to have a main target or "primary" Narcissistic-Supply source, and they treat that person like a doormat or punching bag or something, yet at the same time, they can be very nice to other people in their lives - like they're getting their "fix" somewhere else.

Maybe it's to let out the aggression that eats at them all the time? Oh I don't know - maybe it's sort of like the playground bully who always has to have a main target or whipping boy, and without one, he's miserable (and constantly on the look-out for someone vulnerable or just handy to start aiming all his venom at)

Oh, and as Beth says, N's get worse as they age, so maybe that's it? She's got a lot of blogs on handling the aging Narcissist. It can be a real challenge! An impossible one, sometimes. Good luck!

Denying the Father's Role when Mother is a Narcissist - Blog Entry

10 Jun 2009 01:01 PM

Oh my - I can't imagine how it must feel to have a dad who wouldn't stand up for you (or vice versa) - or worse, to have both parents with NPD, which I know some have endured. I can't imagine have NOBODY loving and sane in your life as a child. What torture.

In my case, my father was absent - as a child, I was told he refused to pay child support (or ever send a birthday or Xmas card or present.) I also found out at 6 that he had another wife and children and he DID care about them. Now that I've figured out my mom had NPD, well, maybe no wonder he left her and started over, so to speak. It still doesn't explain his neglect of the most basic of duties toward me - he was ordered to pay $30 a month child support and wouldn't do it !! (1960s)

My mother was always spitting mad at him and took him to court, yada yada. For many years, I thought this, and an earlier marriage before my dad, was the reason she was, well, impaired, shall we say? Now I know her condition predated her marriages (and in fact, her NPD probably caused not only her divorces but the majority of my childhood problems.) I did find out many years later that an uncle (husband of my mom's shy elder sister) wanted to adopt me, so he KNEW something wasn't right -- it's a comfort knowing that someone was concerned, and how I wished he'd gone through with it - though NMom would surely have thwarted him, if not killed him and her sister. (she did manage to get her disinherited)

Anyway, I've meandered off point, but I do have something similar in my background. My GRANDMOTHER was like a lady Buddha to me, and I lived with her much of the time. She saved my life!! She gave me love and was an ethical, disciplined role model. However, she stood by while my mother smacked me around, yelled, and treated me like a dogsbody. I remember my GM would look down or even leave the room after mom's attacks, and she'd be real sad for a while afterwards, but she never said jack. In fact, she seemed incapable of ever fussing or saying no to anyone - she even allowed my mother to make her disinherit the 3 siblings that my mother was envious of.

I know they don't know the cause of NPD for sure, but I can't help but think in my mom's case, it was her mother's doting indulgence and inability to refuse her anything - and she let my mother boss her around like she was her slave. In fact, all the NPDs I've known have had overindulgent moms - but I've only known a handful.

Oh -- and I found out after growing up that my father's mother was an NPD as well! A pretty vicious one, who beat him often and put huge responsibilities on his shoulders from a very young age. I bet that's why he hooked up with my NM - he was used to it. I guess I'm glad he got away, even if he did treat me like dirt. I suppose he was afraid to have any contact with my NM *at all*, which I understand, but at the time, it really hurt.

Anyway, I'm so grateful for my loving GM. Without her, I can't imagine what my life/personality would have become!! And who knows -- if GM had stood up to my NM over her abuse of me, NM probably wouldn't have let me stay with GM anymore, so maybe I'm even glad she didn't make any waves.

A game I like to play when feeling sorry for myself about my past is imagining ways it could have been much worse -- and that's the first thing I think of! Yikes. There were a number of aunts and family friends who tried to help, from time to time, and they all made a difference. So many are totally alone with their toxic parent! At least mine was so addicted to partying and dating and stuff, I really didn't see as much of her as most kids see of their moms.

Anyway, I've really meandered off-point, but I do want to add that I LOVE your new message board, Beth! Hope we get some friends over there soon to share with!

Dealing with a Narcissistic Mother - Blog Entry

02 Jun 2009 11:32 PM

I wish I knew what to say to help you, Louise1. In another thread, Beth gave me this piece of advice about my NM that I keep returning to: "You will never be able to satisfy her even if you devoted your life to her, she would still have a complaint."

I had a slightly similar problem as yours - how to tell my mother I wanted to see less of her and wanted a new way of her asking me to do things - well, she never "asked" in the first place, "demanded" is more like it, but I digress...

Anyway, my wimpy solution was to write a letter. A tantrum followed, and the first days were the hardest, but I got through, even through a "medical emergency" that I am 99% sure she manufactured but I can't prove it and even if it wasn't - who needs somebody you're having a huge feud with in the room if you've got heart trouble...

Then when she called me 3 months later on Mother's Day (you know a Narcissist will pick a day to contact you when they think THEY deserve something lol), I wrote another letter, REPEATING what I wanted the rules to be. Presto, another tantrum - and back to NC.

Oh I didn't mean to dredge up my details again - hell, they're all in this thread - but maybe you can try to think of the most horrible things that could happen if you figure out how to be assertive with her, and how you might handle them. I WISH YOU PEACE AND GOOD LUCK!

From "The Anxiety & Phobia Workbook" - of the 25 items in their "Personal Bill of Rights": 1. I have the right to ask for what I want. 2. I have the right to say no to requests or demands I can't meet. 3. I have the right to express all of my feelings, positive or negative. 7. I have the right to say no to anything when I feel I am not ready, it is unsafe, or it violates my values. 8. I have the right to determine my own priorities. 9. I have the right NOT to be responsible for others' behaviors, actions, feelings or problems. 11. I have the right to be angry at someone I love. 16. I have the right to make decisions based on my feelings. 23. I have the right to have my needs AND WANTS respected by others. 25. I have the right to be happy.

Dealing with a Narcissistic Mother - Blog Entry

28 May 2009 01:46 PM

Wow - did your comments ever strike a chord with me. My mother is extremely gushingly sweet to people she's drawing in (and she always has an enemy group she tries to get all on "her team" to hate on - if they don't - voila, they're go to the enemy team.)

Anyway, before NC, nearly every time I was at the AL to see her, as I left, some worker or resident would come up to me, grab my arm or something, and say, "Your mother is just the sweetest lady in the world! I love her so much!"

And there I am, weakly thanking them, after spending half an hour listening to her rail in her venomous voice about half the people at the home - and how they're gonna "steal her blind" if she doesn't hide everything she has and how mean and envious they are (esp. the ones who ever try to tell her what to do or, heaven forbid, disagree with her.) She's always SO thrilled to tell me how she came up with some brilliant, cutting remark to put down one of the follow residents, or even lower-level staff. She loves to tell how their eyes went all shameful and everybody in the room turned to watch her triumph over the poor fool. Oh God, it's horrible.

Well, I always go off on my own tangents here - it's just so astounding to hear how similar these people are to each other! It's so uncanny it makes me think it may be a gene or something. Ohhh - and I was reading some article about psychopaths that said it's been noticed that they have slower heartbeats than other people. Well, my mother would always say the doctor bragged about her very-low heart-rate every time she got a checkup - yet she has never exercised. I know it means nothing, but when I read that, I though, OMG - an explanation! (I think the doctors working on the next psych reference - DMV or something - are thinking of designating NPD as a subset of Antisocial Personality Disorder which includes, guess who - Psychopaths!)

And I'm so far off on a tangent it isn't even funny, so I'll close, but I'll be thinking about you, GotIt - I hope we soon get to read a post from you from sunny FLORIDA!

Dealing with a Narcissistic Mother - Blog Entry

27 May 2009 09:19 PM

Oh mercy - my heart goes out to you, Getitat61. I'll say a little prayer for you that you DO manage to get to Florida with your husband. Your husband DESERVES this so much - and so do you! - that it would be a cosmic crime if your mom managed to thwart you and bend both of you to her control. Your mom's got the best care anyone could have, being in an AL.

Mine is in AL too but I still managed to get upset with her constant demands, put downs, hypochondria and health crises that I sent her a letter (well 2 letters) with my "rules" of engagement so to speak - and she refuses to submit. I know she's waiting for me to either ask for forgiveness or sweep it all under the rug, pretend nothing happened, and go back to being her slave again, and I hope I have the strength to not cave and stay NC.

I wish I had good advice for you - I'm sure Beth will - maybe you could do something like that - a letter detailing how it's gonna be and what you're willing to do in the future or, more important, NOT do. I mean, it won't work, but odds are she'll get so angry she'll sulk and won't speak to you for a while and you could make your "getaway"? You might have to face knowing the AL people think ill of you - but you'll be OUT OF TOWN - I sure wish I was!

Oh I don't know - I've been NC since Feb. and that's hard, too, when you've spent a lifetime being a pleaser and craving approval and love. But even with guilt and embarrassment, I find NC not as hard as having most of my life force sucked out of me, which is what I think it takes to stay in contact and put up with the chaos and abuse of an NPD. Please keep up updated! And best luck and wishes to you! I'm so glad you posted - it's so helpful and sort of validating to be aware of others going through much the SAME struggle with this insidious disease. I still try to remember to feel thankful and lucky that some pioneering souls named this and write about it - but it's still just so difficult to cope with. You're not alone - and it's nothing about you that is wrong - it's HER - and you're right to fight for what you and your husband's own lives!

Dealing with a Narcissistic Mother - Blog Entry

12 May 2009 10:16 PM

That's some great advice, Skeletonmom. I'm hoping that even if there's contact, things we'll never be what they were. I've screamed that the emperor has no clothes and it was like a "rule" that I couldn't speak to the cause of all the discord. Well, till several years ago, I didn't KNOW the cause, so many stars have aligned for me, even if it's fits and starts for a while. Knowledge is POWER - and once unveiled, I don't think ANY of us could ever forget what we've found out!! I can't ever thank the revealers enough - one of the greatest gifts of my life !

Dealing with a Narcissistic Mother - Blog Entry

12 May 2009 09:47 AM

Never visiting her granddaughter?!?! Wow. I think you're doing the right thing - and of course, it isn't wrong to feel as you do. It's smart! Be glad your daughter didn't have to go through all you did.