Grizelda's comments

Having a Sibling with Narcissistic Personality Disorder

18 Apr 2010 01:58 PM

I'm so pleased you've posted some new blogs about Narcissism, Beth - thanks!

I have no siblings and was the only child of a single Narcissistic mother, which was its own special insidious form of hell -- but you know, I often think I was lucky in a way, because N parents seem compelled to either have favorites among their children (GC's) and especially-tortured scapegoats, or to "play off" their children against each other every chance they get - and also they get jealous of the relationships their children form with the other parent. I was thankfully spared all these agonizing situations.

However, my mother's siblings were not spared. My mother has a brother, eight years younger than herself, and though I don't know enough to diagnose - I think he has severe Avoidant PD because of her. He's the most meek, "beaten down" and taciturn person I've ever known - and does practically anything to avoid people. For decades I wondered what the heck caused him to be this way - and finally, when I figured out what was going on with N mother, I think I finally see what may have happened to him, being dominated by a bullying N sister (the next one up him in the family) his entire life (to this day and she's 81, he's 73.)

And he wasn't the only sibling-victim: My mother forced my grandmother to disinherit three of her five children because my mother wanted to 'win' over the siblings she was envious of (she let little beat-down brother off the hook and he got some of the estate along with my NM - but she made sure the other three got nothing.)

My heart goes out to the many who've been hurt by an N sibling - and especially to those who've had not only an N sibling but an N parent - and who had to be the family scapegoat who was ganged-up on by a group of N's in their own families. I can't help but think of this disorder as just plain old "mean-ness" or, well I'll say it though it's a loaded term, "evil."

What can you do about something this widespread? Read books and blogs like yours (and find therapists who understand, like you) and protect yourself. That's really all you can do, isn't it? And as "Anna Valerious" said, "Pity the children - save them, if you can." But really, how can we, other than continue speading the word?

Why Is Narcissistic Personality Disorder So Little Known? (1)

09 Apr 2010 04:24 PM

What a beautifully written post, IAMERIKA. I'm so happy for you that you've been able to identify the "real" problem in your life - it's great that your therapist was able to identify the NPD.

It's horrible what happened to you with the taxi driver and then your mother's unspeakable behavior afterwards.

I hope you're able to free yourself even more from this monster - this toxic black hole, that you so accurately put it. I know it's not easy. Every day I feel guilty and try to process the situation and move forward (going on 15 months since I've laid eyes on my NM!) Thanks so much for sharing your story - every one who contributes is another piece of the puzzle for all of us. It's such a hard lesson to learn but it's NOT our fault - it's our bad luck. And we can change it by getting ourselves free

Oh, and nearly everywhere I've read of this mess, I've read that people with NPD get worse as they get older! It's hardly possible to imagine - but if it's true, then every day it becomes more important to, as wonderful Joanna Ashmun put it, "get out and stay out."

Dealing with a Narcissistic Mother

25 Feb 2010 01:11 PM

It sure sounds like your mother is a sadistic psychopath - at the most extreme end of the narcissistic spectrum (if malignant narcissism and psychopathy on the same spectrum and I believe they are). Good for you for getting away! So many people stay enmeshed with these bad people and never figure it out.

Why Is Narcissistic Personality Disorder So Little Known? (1)

19 Feb 2010 02:14 PM

I wonder if part of the problem is NPD is so new? Wasn't it the 1980's that it first appeared in the DVM or whatever it's called, the reference book for psychologists?

But all of us knew, way back when, about schoolyard bullies, "mean girls" in school, domineering rageful parents, spouses, bosses, etc. - we just didn't realize it as a disorder that could be diagnosed, quantified, and, well, not so much "treated" as understood in such a way that it could be seen and dealt with more objectively by its victims.

I don't know if I ever completely accepted that it was "my fault" as a kid - maybe because my mother was gone a lot and I wasn't under her influence as much as many ACON victims. I knew she was mean and daffy/weird. Oh and obsessed with having everybody think she was wonderful.

I'm still astonished that her weird characteristics showed up almost perfectly in the "NPD" diagnosis. I still have to pinch myself that this is a repeatedly occurring way of thinking and being, among a fairly-large group, with so many of the same characteristics turning up in this subset of people. Just WOW.

I'll never get over being grateful to all you psychologists, probably going back to before Freud, who figured this out and have written and talked about it. It's a miracle, that's what it is!! I look forward to reading your next article, Beth. Thanks!

When a Therapist Fails to Diagnose Narcissistic Personality Disorder in the Extended Family

07 Feb 2010 11:02 PM

Here's a report of a study linking stress and suicide linked to child abuse:

http://www.vancouversun.com/health/men/Child+abuse+marks+genes+affects+ability+cope+Study/1319863/story.html

I'm still a firm believer that one person who loves you unconditionally and gives you support - and you know you can depend on them - makes ALL the difference in the world.

Many children have the horrible situation of both parents being N's, and some have N siblings as well! Good luck to you and your kids - they have a very good chance of making it through to a great life, despite having an NM; and this is much more likely with you being there for them.

When a Therapist Fails to Diagnose Narcissistic Personality Disorder in the Extended Family

07 Feb 2010 09:26 PM

It helps enormously that you know what you're probably dealing with here - NPD. 9, 11, and 15 year-olds are probably old enough to be told what NPD is and to be warned to look for the signs. And most importantly, that it's the Narcissist who is WRONG and FATALLY FLAWED not his or her victims, and they project their hatred of themselves outward towards other people, especially their children.

If you met resistance, with your kids not believing you, you could just say that you "think" that's what she might have and they can judge for themselves after reading about it (I've run into a number of people who look at me the way you look at someone who brings up astrology - and kids also often have a reflex to think their parents are stupid and wrong about everything.)

I didn't find out what NPD was till my late 40's, so I can't imagine what effect it would have had on me to be told that as a child - but the little signs I got straight from mean Mom, when she'd badmouth her sister and sister-in-law, whom I knew to be very sweet people - well, with that and a few more red flags - even my childhood mind could realize there was a very bad side to her - anyway, without those signs I think I would have turned out a lot more damaged than I am.

I also had a loving grandmother - and your kids have you! But on another board, I've read of a few cases where Adult Children of N's had siblings who did kill themselves. And I think it was why the author John Kennedy Toole killed himself. OTOH, the finest steel is forged in the -- oh I can't remember the proverb -- but many people have come through the N-parent crucible and emerged truly strong, creative, intelligent and wonderful people -- not that I'm sure I agree with Nietzsche's "That which does not kill us makes us stronger."

When a Therapist Fails to Diagnose Narcissistic Personality Disorder in the Extended Family

03 Feb 2010 07:32 PM

My heart goes out to you, exnavymid. Beth is qualified to answer and I'm not - but I found out, as an adult, that one of my uncles wanted to adopt me when I was a child. I know if he had tried that, my mother would have snatched me up and disappeared with me, and neither he nor any of the rest of my extended family (who were the only source of stable love and stupport I had) would have ever seen me again.

Some N's and psychopaths even kill their children rather than let their ex-spouses "win". They'll do nearly anything to win! Well, I don't know your ex-wife, but some of them are just that bad when you "go to war" with them.

It's great that you have the 12 or so days a month with them - it's great that they know you love them and they can depend on you. I wish you could get custody, but, well, I'd be very careful, if I were you.

Some adult children of N's are so worried themselves about confront their N's that they move far away, change their phone numbers, and make sure their N parents can't find them. And these are adults! I hope your N isn't as bad as some of the stalking, uber-vindictive ones I've heard about, but if you think she might be - well, all the more reason to tread very very carefully. Good luck!

Dealing with a Narcissistic Mother

22 Jan 2010 07:59 AM

Rachel and Replay - I've been away for a while and just happened to see your posts. My heart goes out to both of you, since it seems you're still in the situation with your N in your life. Having gone NC, I highly recommend it, and it's never too late!

But I do understand that the guilt is tough. Replay - if I understood you correctly, this stepmother of yours is not even the biological grandmother of your child? I think I'd find the courage to keep the child away from the nasty woman unless I was there too. And then I'd start working on staying away myself! It sounds like she's already being toxic with the child with that "I'll buy a new grandbaby" crap. If she'd do that in front of you, she'd do far worse behind your back. And after how they treated you when you were young - kicking you out! and everything - you don't owe them ANYTHING. If you father is reasonable and wants to see you, maybe you could meet without her, but if that's not possible, I'd think you could use your child's welfare as a reason, and just scram.

Rachel - oh dear. Did you have her in a nursing home and decide to take her out? You are a very generous soul. You have my heartfelt sympathy. Of course, only you can decide what you can live with later - and maybe that nursing home is really horrible - but, well, I guess I'll never understand why abuse victims feel obligated to destroy their lives for the sake of their abuser. If it's one of those cases where she's not being treated like the Queen Bee and THAT's what her problem is, I'd let her deal with it. I think N's are happiest around other people anyway, even if they act grumpy. More chances for them to do their devilment towards others (and not YOU!)

When a Therapist Fails to Diagnose Narcissistic Personality Disorder in the Extended Family

16 Nov 2009 11:13 PM

This is really a great blog, Beth. This happened to me. The psychologist got very snippy with me and told me I had no business "labeling" anyone. I even brought in a list of books and even academic journal articles (which I wouldn't recommend, lol) to support my "case" that I believed my mother had NPD. Anyway, that made her (the therapist) even more dismissive of me, and I got out of there.

I'm so glad that NPD is getting more exposure - it will help the situation for so many victims. And I'm doubly glad that there are resources like this one on the 'net. They're literally life-savers!

Narcissism-Symptoms and Treatment (1)

15 Oct 2009 12:28 AM

So sorry for you, Turouge. That's a real mess. I think I would find an attorney to talk to - I'm not sure what kind - a divorce attorney? If you've got proof you paid him, it looks like you could sue to get your money back (or he could be forced to put your name on the house?) Best of luck!